PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE
Coronavirus - 11 March 2020 (Commons/Commons Chamber)
Debate Detail
Turning to the advice that is being provided to Parliament, may I start by welcoming the way in which you are working with the Government, Mr Speaker? I know how seriously you take the wellbeing of all Members and staff in Parliament, and the Government will continue to work closely with you, the Lords Speaker and the authorities in both Houses in the coming days and weeks. As the Leader of the House said in business questions last week:
“The public will expect Parliament to sit, and to get on with its job...
Our approach will be guided by the best scientific evidence and medical advice, and we will take all necessary measures to deal with this outbreak.”—[Official Report, 5 March 2020; Vol. 672, c. 984.]
I know Mr Speaker, that you are committed to providing as much information to Members and staff as possible and to taking any action that is required. A cross-parliamentary group of senior managers meets daily to plan the response to covid-19 and ensure business continuity, with close input from the Government. It is essential that the parliamentary authorities continue to work closely with the Government and in line with medical advice, and I commit us to that endeavour. Both Houses are conscious of our national role at this time, and by basing decisions on the very best public health advice, we can be confident that we are doing the best we can to respond to this virus.
Around the world, the number infected is rising. As of today, here at home, 456 people have tested positive and eight people are, sadly, confirmed to have died. The positive cases of course include the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Ms Dorries). She has done exactly the right thing in following the official advice to self-isolate, and I know the whole House will wish her well as she recovers. Public Health England has world-class expertise in contact tracing, which it initiated as soon as her case was confirmed. PHE will contact anyone who it thinks may need testing. This will only include those who had close contact. The advice of the chief medical officer is that close contact is defined as being within 2 metres of someone who has active symptoms for more than 15 minutes. Those who have not been in close contact with my hon. Friend since Thursday have no cause for concern in this case, and anyone who has concerns should seek guidance from PHE. I also know my hon. Friend wants me to pass on her thanks to officials at PHE and to the NHS, who have been brilliant throughout.
Of course, a Member of this House and Health Minister testing positive has brought this issue home to us all, and I know that the public will be concerned that coronavirus has now been deemed a global pandemic. The official advice is clear: people should go to NHS 111 online or call NHS 111 if they think they have symptoms of coronavirus, notably a cough and fever. Of course, the best way to minimise the risk to themselves and others is regularly to wash their hands.
Earlier today I chaired a meeting of Cobra. Our response will be built on the bedrock of the science. It is clear that we will need legislation to ensure the best possible response, and I can tell the House that I have invited the Official Opposition to meet me first thing tomorrow to discuss the proposed emergency Bill that we will set out before the House next week. In addition to the measures that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out in the Budget earlier, the Bill will include measures to help in the national effort to keep vital public services running, to support business and to help everyone play their part.
Adult social care will be at the frontline of our response, with social care providers looking after many of the most vulnerable in society. We are working closely with the sector to make sure that it is ready. Tomorrow, the Prime Minister will chair a further meeting of Cobra to decide what further measures may be necessary.
We will do the right thing at the right time. I know how worrying this is. I know that people have deep concerns. I know that everyone will play their part in this national effort to defeat the virus. The best way to beat it is for us to work together. We will do whatever it takes. We will give the NHS whatever it needs and we will do all that we can to keep people safe and get through this together, as a Parliament and a nation. I commend this statement to the House.
I put on the record my sorrow that two more people have died, and I express our deepest condolences to their loved ones and family. Again, we thank the NHS and Public Health England staff for all they are doing. Will the Secretary of State convey our very best wishes to the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Ms Dorries), who is in all our thoughts, as well as to her staff in both her departmental private office and her parliamentary office? I am sure they are all very worried, and I want them to know that they are in our thoughts as well at this time.
We welcome what the Secretary of State has said about Parliament and his advice to keep Parliament open. It is crucial that Members should be able to continue to raise issues on behalf of their constituents and hold Ministers to account. I note that he said that procedures or arrangements may need to be modified, and we look forward to continued engagement on that front.
I also welcome the advice that the right hon. Gentleman has given to people who have come into contact with the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire, but can he offer us some extra advice? I have heard about cases of this today. What is the advice for those who work on the estate who feel ill and appear to have symptoms but have not, as far as they are aware, been in contact with the hon. Lady? Should they now be tested as well as a matter of routine? The advice for them is just to self-isolate, but what is the latest guidance on that front?
We welcome the opportunity to discuss emergency legislation. The Secretary of State knows that we have concerns about statutory sick pay and other issues, but we will engage constructively on that front and seek to pass emergency legislation in a timely manner. He also knows that we support the action of the chief medical officer and we very strongly agree that we must at all times be guided by the science. However, may I press him a little further on the epidemiology, the latest medical advice and the appropriate moment when we should move into the so-called delay stage and start adopting some of the more stringent social distancing strategies?
The right hon. Gentleman will have seen that some in the science community—the editor-in-chief of The Lancet, for example—are suggesting that we are not following the epidemiology in the correct way and that we are perhaps placing too much emphasis on behavioural science. Other countries are taking different approaches. Tonight, for example, 3,000 Atlético Madrid fans are arriving in Liverpool to watch the champions league game. If that game was in Madrid, they would not be able to go to the stadium because of the Spanish social distancing measures. Will the Secretary of State explain the thinking in the United Kingdom and why it appears to differ from that of some of the other nations in Europe? Our constituents would welcome that.
I have just a couple of final points, Mr Speaker. On the Budget, it would be churlish of me not to recognise that extra funding was announced for the NHS and social care as part of the covid-19 response. It is something that we have long been calling for. Will the Secretary of State tell us how that money will be allocated, and what happens when that money is depleted? The NHS has said today that it is seeking to scale up intensive care beds sevenfold. That fund will run out at some point and it will need topping up. Do we have to wait for the spending review process in the summer, or will it be topped up over the coming weeks and months?
I am sorry to ask the Secretary of State this again, but when will we get the public health allocations? I would have thought that we would have had them today. Please, let us know when we are getting them. We must do all we can to support NHS staff at this time. The NHS has suggested suspending Care Quality Commission inspections for now. What is his view on that? As he says, this is now designated a pandemic by the World Health Organisation. We agree that we all have to do our bit. The Government have our continued co-operation, because public health and public safety must always come first.
The hon. Gentleman asked about advice for those who are ill but cannot recall whether they came into close contact with my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Bedfordshire. The answer is to call 111 and ask the questions, and then get the clinical advice and follow that advice. The advice may be different for people in different circumstances. When people are recommended to follow certain advice by 111, they should follow that advice, because it takes into account a clinical judgment based on the information that is provided to a clinician.
We will, of course, as I have repeated many times, be guided by science. The hon. Gentleman mentioned that some voices are asking whether the appropriate moment for further action is now. Of course, we keep action under review all the time and, as I said, the Prime Minister is chairing a Cobra meeting tomorrow. There are some voices that are saying that we should not base our response entirely on the science, but I think that they are wrong. He asked about our differences with other countries and mentioned Spain in particular, but there are others. The truth is that different countries are at different stages of the virus. The point is that we will do the right thing at the right time. There are some countries that are not fully following the science. I am not going to criticise them, because I think that in responding to a pandemic such as this, everybody is doing their level best.
The hon. Gentleman asked about money. There was a very significant increase in funding—£6 billion for the whole NHS and social care system. It is important to stress that this is for social care, too. We want to make sure that the social care system has everything that it needs to respond to this crisis, because we entirely understand not only the strains on the social care system should a large proportion of the population fall ill, but also the importance of the social care system, because that is where so many vulnerable people either reside, if they are in a care home, or are supported. He asked whether we will have to wait for the spending review for any top-up. The Chancellor made it quite clear in the Budget that we will not.
The hon. Gentleman asked about the CQC. The CQC has already published a statement today, saying that it is relaxing some of its requirements and taking into consideration the impact of coronavirus, and I welcome that. It is, of course, independent. He asked about the public health grant budgets. As I made clear yesterday, those budgets are going up in real terms in every single local authority area, and the precise details will be set out very shortly.
The chief medical officer says that we would have to be “pretty optimistic” to think we could contain the virus in this country. The deputy chief medical officer says that she thinks we may hit the peak in the next fortnight. We now have more reported cases in this country than there were in Wuhan when it went into lockdown. We know that the Secretary of State will rightly follow the science, but could I ask him to give his judgment to the House as to whether he thinks we still can contain the virus in this country and, if not, whether he expects to move to the delay phase very soon so that families up and down the country can start to prepare their loved ones for any precautions they might want to take?
I welcome the declaration to keep Parliament open, but surely we should be looking at core functions, at who comes into the House and at what we do in the House. I have to say that I was a bit disappointed to have several hundred of us jammed into the voting Lobbies on Tuesday. That is just not a good idea. There are ways of working that would still allow Parliament to stay open.
With cases having increased by 13 times outside China in just two weeks, the virus has of course been declared a pandemic by the WHO, which describes its concern at “levels of inaction”. It calls for quicker and wider testing so that milder cases are diagnosed quickly, isolated and the spread reduced. We have seen the speed of change in northern Italy over a matter of a couple of weeks, so should we not be thinking about the delay phase? Containment and delay are a continuum; it is not a switch between one and the other.
We see large leisure events still continuing. They are not critical, so should we not be decreasing them? Do we know yet whether children are spreaders? We know they do not catch the virus, but do they spread it? That would be central to any decision about closing schools, and obviously closing schools would have an impact on NHS and social care staff.
I welcome the announcement in the Budget of funding to support people on sick pay, but will the Secretary of State clarify whether this will be provided to people who do not have sick pay in their contract? That is exactly who we were concerned about when we raised this point.
How quickly will all three devolved Governments hear about the extra funding that they are going to get, since it is urgent for them to take action as well? There has been talk about bringing doctors back from retirement. Is there a discussion with the General Medical Council about relicensing doctors, and about providing Crown indemnity for doctors who may have retired within the last year or two? The UK is already outside the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, so will the Government now at least rethink leaving the pandemic early warning and response system?
The hon. Lady asked for more testing. We are absolutely ramping up the testing capabilities. We have been commended on the approach we are taking by international bodies; she mentioned the WHO. She asked about children. One of the good pieces of news about the virus is that it does appear to have a much, much less significant impact on children. On the GMC and indemnity, absolutely —both those issues will be addressed in the Bill, and we are working very closely with the GMC.
The hon. Lady asked about collaboration and work with the European Union. We still remain within the European Union data transfer capabilities. Most of this data is being transferred—frankly, it is being published. We are being as transparent as possible. This week, we brought out a new website in order to be as transparent as possible about all the cases in the UK. Most European nations are taking exactly that approach.
My constituents have developed a test for the virus. They are selling it all round the world, but we are not using it in this country. It costs £5. It is working, and it gives a result within 10 minutes—it is a quick, cheap way to do it. May I urge the Secretary of State to ask the Department to investigate that and ensure that we are using the most effective test possible?
Here the timing really is critical, because the evidence of past epidemics and past crises of this nature shows that people do tire of these sorts of social distancing measures, so if we start them too early, they lose their effect and actually it is worse. The social science and the behavioural science are a very important part of the scientific advice that we rely on.
Areas like mine in Dover and Deal are on the border with another country. With a global pandemic now announced, will my right hon. Friend update the House on any additional steps being taken internationally to manage transmission risk between countries, such as between our country and France?
The one point I will respond to is that calling for testing for everyone is not going to help, because the test is not reliable for people who are not symptomatic. That is why testing at the airport, for instance, which several people have called for, is not effective. Some of the countries that started it, stopped it. Temperature testing leads to a load of false positives, because you might be ill with something else, and that complicates the system—or it leads to lots of false negatives, with the test returning a negative even though somebody is ill, because they do not yet have enough virus in their system to be symptomatic and for the test to pick it up. Testing people who do not have symptoms is not reliable and is counterproductive, so we will not be doing it.
Lecturers and schoolteachers in my constituency have contacted me to ask what discussions the Secretary of State is having with the Department for Education, exam boards and the devolved Administrations about what will happen as we approach the examination season. The point was made to me, particularly by further education lecturers, that it is not just children who face exams in the coming months.
The Secretary of State said that the peak in cases may come in two months’ time. That is exactly the time of the local government elections. Will the Government now give some consideration to the desirability of postponing those elections, as happened in 2001 with foot and mouth epidemic?
May I answer an earlier question better than I did before, Mr Deputy Speaker? My hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood) asked whether GPs were getting their protective equipment. We have rolled out protective equipment to almost 100% of GP surgeries now.
I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on this campaign, which has kept the level of conversation stable and consistent throughout. This week, sadly, we also had a constituent pass away at Watford General Hospital, and I pay tribute to the family and to the staff who work so hard.
My question is on the broader responsibility of this place, councils, local government and anybody in a public position. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the main message we need to get out is for people to remember that, on the frontline, the most important thing they can do is regularly wash their hands for 20 seconds? That is not much to ask of the general public, but it is the most frontline thing they can do to stop the spread.
What guidance will the Secretary of State give to prepare us for what may be necessary, such as the possibility of having to cancel events, constituency surgeries and so on? I have staff, as I am sure most Members do, who are already concerned about how they should be protecting us and, most importantly, themselves and their family and friends.
Secondly, what is the Secretary of State doing, or talking to colleagues about doing, for those on very low incomes who have to self-isolate and are unable to order food through the internet because they have either no credit card or no internet?
Secondly, it is very hard, from central Government, to make sure we reach all the people who will need the sort of support the hon. Lady describes. This is best done through local authorities, which is why we have introduced a £0.5 billion fund for local authorities essentially to do whatever they think is necessary in these circumstances.
It is true that Wales has seen very few registered cases of coronavirus relative to other parts of the UK. Indeed, I believe we have no registered cases of coronavirus in north Wales. None the less, I welcome the installation of temporary testing sites by the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the Welsh Government have access to the same advice as he does, and that they are being fully included in the preparations he is making here in the UK?
Does the Secretary of State accept that it does not have to be all or nothing? A lot of things happen in this place that are not essential to the functioning of our democracy and that, either in fact or certainly in perception, create a high risk of infection. For example, why do we still have functions at which food is left out on uncovered plates on a table at the end of the room without enough sets of tongs, meaning people have little choice but to help themselves using their hands? Why is it that, on the few occasions that we have to divide the House, we cannot use a deferred Division system so that people go through the Lobbies in dribs and drabs over a two or three-hour period, instead of being crammed in, 300 at a time, within a maximum time limit of eight minutes?
Will the Secretary of State and his colleagues in government look at some of the practices in this place, partly to minimise the chances of our carrying this infection back to our constituencies but also to send a message to the rest of the population that we have identified where our own practices fall short of the best standards of hygiene and that we are taking steps to correct it?
On the second point, the deputy chief medical officer had a discussion with the Prime Minister today that was videoed and put on Facebook, and in that she was clear on this question about masks. There is not an advantage in wearing a mask if you are healthy—that is the advice from the medics here—but there is an advantage in respect of keeping others safe if someone who is ill wears a mask. There are also examples of when medical staff will need to wear the right type of mask to keep them safe. But the general advice is: don’t wear a mask unless you are advised to by PHE; or if you are ill, it is perfectly reasonable to wear a mask to stop infecting others—that is an act of generosity.
This afternoon, my office was contacted by a constituent whose mother is in a care home that has been closed to visitors for what is described as “the foreseeable future”. Will guidance be issued to residential care homes to ensure that the proper arrangements are made for access to residents?
Yes, new guidance on care homes will be put out this week. If the hon. Lady passes on the details of her individual case to the Minister for Care, I am sure that my hon. Friend will be happy to look at it.
I fully agree with the Secretary of State’s advice that we should follow the medical science, but, whether they have symptoms or not, people arriving back on flights from category 1 countries should not be met with that situation.
Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0.