PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE
Engagements - 23 April 2025 (Commons/Commons Chamber)

The entire House will join me in paying tribute to His Holiness Pope Francis, an extraordinary man. His lifelong work on fairness will leave a lasting legacy. People of all backgrounds and beliefs were inspired by his humility and compassion, and the outpouring of grief and love that we have seen in the last two days or so shows the respect and admiration that he was held in around the world. I will attend his funeral on Saturday and pay tribute to his courage and leadership. May His Holiness rest in peace.

I also wish everyone in England a very happy St George’s day. There is a lot to celebrate: our history, our values and our culture.

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

May I also wish those in the Chamber a happy St George’s day?

After a cost of living crisis overseen by the chaotic Conservative Government, many in the tourist industry in Torbay believed that they had weathered the storm, as did those in Devon and Cornwall. However, many in the tourist industry in Torbay fear that the Government’s national insurance contribution hikes and effective jobs tax could be the last nail in the coffin for some of those businesses. In the light of that, will the Prime Minister give me the pleasure of showing him round Paignton zoo this summer, so he can see this outstanding, amazing tourist attraction in Torbay? It is one of many across the west of England that, sadly, are massively impacted by the jobs tax.

May I start by wishing Jennie, the hon. Gentleman’s guide dog, a very happy birthday for yesterday? She is six years old—although she does not look particularly interested in my answer, I have to say.

I recognise the importance of tourism to the hon. Gentleman’s beautiful constituency—I have been there many times, and worked there for a short time—in driving growth and creating jobs. We have announced a new Visitor Economy Advisory Council, which will work with business to deliver a new strategy that is focused on supporting growth and the tourism industry. VisitBritain has also launched a new international marketing campaign to showcase Britain’s incredible heritage, culture and landscapes, and I know the Minister for Creative Industries, Arts and Tourism will be happy to keep the hon. Gentleman updated.

My hon. Friend knows my personal commitment to delivering justice for victims of crime, who have been completely failed over the last 14 years. We are improving access to compensation through better online systems, and are equipping staff with the skills that they need to better support victims. We are of course also consulting on a revised victims code, which will increase the powers of the Victims’ Commissioner to ensure more accountability. I am happy to ensure that she meets the relevant Minister to discuss those issues.

We now come to the Leader of the Opposition.

I, too, wish everyone a happy St George’s day. Can I also associate myself with the remarks about the passing of His Holiness Pope Francis on Easter Monday? Being married to a Catholic, I know the profound loss for millions in Britain and across the world.

Does the Prime Minister now accept that when he said that it was the law that trans women were women, he was wrong?

Let me be clear: I welcome the Supreme Court ruling on this issue. It brings clarity, and it will give confidence to women, and of course to service providers. The Equality and Human Rights Commission will now issue updated guidance. It is important that that happens, and that all service providers then act accordingly. This Government’s approach, and my approach, has been as follows: to support and implement the Supreme Court ruling, and we will; to continue to protect single-sex spaces based on biological sex, and we will; to ensure that trans people are treated with respect, and we will; and to ensure that everybody is given dignity in their everyday lives. I do think this is the time to lower the temperature, move forward and conduct this debate with the care and compassion that it deserves, and I think that should unite the whole House.

The Prime Minister cannot bring himself to admit that he was wrong; that was the question. He spoke about respect and dignity, compassion and lowering the temperature, so will he now apologise to the very brave hon. Member for Canterbury (Rosie Duffield) for hounding her out of the Labour party simply for telling the truth?

I have always approached this on the basis that we should treat everyone with dignity and respect, whatever their different views, and I will continue to do so. I will tell you, Mr Speaker, why: because when we lose sight of that approach and make this a political football, as happened in the past, we end up with the spectacle of a decent man—and he was a decent man, the previous Prime Minister—diminishing himself at this Dispatch Box by making trans jokes while the mother of a murdered trans teenager watched from the Public Gallery just up there. That will never be my approach. My approach will be to support the ruling, protect single-sex spaces and treat everybody with dignity and respect, and I believe there is a consensus in this House and the country on that approach.

There was no apology to the hon. Member for Canterbury. There is no taking of responsibility. The Prime Minister talks about political football; he practically kicked her out of his party—constructive dismissal. He talks about my predecessor. What about the abuse I faced from his MPs, who called me a transphobe for supporting what the Supreme Court has now clarified, to use his words? And where was he? He hid for six days without commenting on the Supreme Court judgment. Why did it take him so long to respond? Is it not because he was scared?

The only fiction here is the idea that the right hon. Member delivered anything in office. She held the post of Minister for Women and Equalities for two years, and she did precisely nothing. She provided no clarity on the law, and did nothing to improve women’s lives, which got materially worse under her watch. For example, the Opposition talk about hospitals and mixed-sex wards, up hill and down dale. What happened in the last decade? The use of mixed-sex wards in our NHS rose by 2,000%. There is a pattern of behaviour here: the Women and Equalities Minister who failed to do anything for women; the Trade Minister who failed to get a trade deal with the US; the Business Minister who failed to get a deal with British Steel. She is a spectator, not a leader.

I will tell the Prime Minister what I did. I stopped the gender—[Interruption.] I will, I will. When his Labour leader in Scotland was whipping his MSPs to get male rapists into women’s prisons, I stopped that gender recognition Bill. I helped commission the Cass review. I replaced the guidance on single-sex toilets. I made sure that the puberty blockers issue was resolved, while he was sitting there cheering on the ideology that was taking away safe spaces. And when the Prime Minister stayed silent last week, presumably waiting to hear what Morgan McSweeney thinks, on his WhatsApp groups some of his closest Ministers were plotting to overturn the Supreme Court decision. Labour MP after Labour MP stood up yesterday and challenged the ruling. How can we take his Government seriously on this?

I think the WhatsApp group the right hon. Lady should be worried about is the one with her shadow Justice Secretary, the right hon. Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick). The mask has slipped, just one week before the elections. The shadow Justice Secretary is not here. A man who is doing everything he can to replace her, the man that most Conservative Members want as leader of their party, has admitted that Reform and the Tories are working together. He said:

“I want the fight to be united.”

He said he is determined

“to bring this coalition”,

as he calls it,

“together…one way or another”.

Well, I think we know what that means. Every Tory voter is appalled at the thought of paying for the NHS; every Reform voter hates what the Tories did for the last 14 years. They are not Conservatives; they are a con.

Who is playing political football now? The Prime Minister has no answers. Yesterday, Labour MP after Labour MP challenged the ruling. He should be more worried about his Back Benchers than my Front Benchers. His Labour Ministers called the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission “appalling”. Baroness Falkner’s role is critical to enforcing the Court’s judgment. She has had to put up with relentless abuse, not just from his Front Bench but from activists and ideologues. Reappointing her would be a clear sign that he is taking this issue seriously, so will he commit to reappointing Baroness Falkner when her term expires this year?

I have always said that the debate should be conducted properly, on the principle. I have said it many, many times. I would remind the Leader of the Opposition that when they were in government, violence against women and girls reached record highs, rape prosecutions fell to record lows, and millions of women were left stuck on NHS waiting lists, unable to get the healthcare they needed. Under this Labour Government, NHS waiting lists are down by more than 200,000, and there are domestic abuse specialists in 999 control rooms. We strengthened access to maternity pay, something she called excessive. She talks about political footballs, but a coalition of Reform and the Tories is being formed behind her back. We know what it means when the shadow Justice Secretary and the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) cook up a joint manifesto: NHS charging, pro-Russia foreign policy, and an end to workers’ rights. Just as the previous Government lost control of the economy, borders and health, in six short months she has lost control of her party.

The Prime Minister is clearly so uncomfortable talking about this subject. This is a choice between a Conservative party that stood up for common sense and a Labour party that bends the knee to every passing fad. This is a question about moral courage, and doing the right thing even when it is difficult. The truth is he doesn’t have the balls. The Prime Minister only tells people what they want to hear. He is a weathervane; he twists in the wind. He cheered an ideology that denied safe spaces to women and girls, because he thought it was cool to do so. He hounded a brave female MP out of his party for telling the truth he accepts now. And now, he is hiding behind the Supreme Court judgment. Is that not because he does not know what he actually believes?

I can only assume that that sounded better when the right hon. Lady said it in the mirror earlier. The truth is, it does not really matter what she says, because nobody—none of them behind her—believes that she is going to lead them into the next election anyway. It will be the shadow Justice Secretary, who is away plotting—that is why he is not here today—and the hon. Member for Clacton fighting over the bones of the Tory party. The Conservatives think Reform will give them its votes without changing their policy—absolutely no way. The hon. Member for Clacton will do what he always does: eat the Tory party for breakfast.

The net zero transition is a huge economic opportunity for this country, despite the naysayers on the Opposition Benches. We have had almost £44 billion of investment since July, which will deliver jobs across the country, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency—investment that the Opposition presumably do not want. We are ensuring we have the skilled workers that we need, launching Skills England and our new growth and skills offer to encourage even more apprenticeships, and supporting the industry-led plan for hydrogen to deliver the workforce needed for the industry of the future.

I call the leader of the Liberal Democrats.

I also wish the House and the country a happy St George’s day, and join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to the late Pope Francis. As a Christian, I found his compassion absolutely inspiring. My prayers are with Catholics in the UK and across the world, who will feel his loss particularly deeply.

I have previously raised with the Prime Minister the issue of North Devon district hospital. The previous Government promised to rebuild it, as they did hospitals across the south-west, in places such as Torbay and Musgrove Park. Unfortunately, they broke that promise, leaving appalling conditions like sewage leaks and patients being treated in corridors. Will the Prime Minister reconsider his decision to delay further the construction of new hospitals, and ask his MPs to vote for our motion today for new hospitals?

The previous programme, introduced by the Conservative party, was undeliverable and unaffordable, as I think the right hon. Gentleman knows and accepts. We have put the new hospital programme on a sustainable footing with a timeline that can be met—we are not prepared to trade on false promises, as the Conservatives did—and obviously we have also put record investment into the NHS.

I gently urge the right hon. Gentleman to one day get a bit more serious about the funding of these measures. Every week, he comes to the Chamber to push me on two issues: he pushes me to spend a lot more money, but at the same time, in the next breath, he opposes the measures in the Budget to raise the necessary money.

Unlike the Prime Minister, we had a funded programme at the election. I am disappointed with his reply—I hope he will actually visit some of these hospitals to see the urgent need for rebuilding.

At Merton Mead farm in Oxfordshire last week, I saw world-class British beef farmers at work. Farmers want the Prime Minister to be careful in a trade deal with President Trump. They were let down by the Conservatives’ appalling trade deals and worry that a bad US deal could allow American agribusiness to undercut them with inferior meat. Will the Prime Minister guarantee a vote in this House on any trade deal that he agrees with the United States?

The right hon. Gentleman raises a point that is of real interest and importance to farmers. We will negotiate, as he would expect, in the national interest and uphold the highest animal welfare standards. We are making progress on that, and there will then be a process if a deal is reached.

My hon. Friend is a fantastic champion for Derby. She is right: whether it is the workforce I met at Alstom or the workers at Hitachi in County Durham, we will support our rail industry, providing certainty that delivers jobs, investment and security. I met those workforces. I know how worried they were a year ago, as she rightly says, when the previous Government were in charge. I am really proud that Derby will be the home of Great British Railways, because we are bringing railways back into public ownership to provide better services for passengers, cutting delays and cancellations and boosting growth across the country.

I and my party join the Prime Minister in his condolences for the passing of His Holiness Pope Francis.

The Prime Minister has often referred to his time working in Northern Ireland, and I have spoken to one of his bosses, who speaks of his diligence. In that vein, could he speak to his Northern Ireland team about their understanding of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement? In an interview, the Secretary of State seemed to think that it had been negotiated by Ian Paisley, rather than David Trimble and my party. His Northern Ireland Minister said at the start of this week that the future of Northern Ireland as part of the Union is dependent on opinion polls and she was not sure whether she was a Unionist. Will the Prime Minister confirm to me his understanding of the principle of consent and confirm to this House that he is a Unionist?

I thank the hon. Member for that question. I did work in Northern Ireland for five years and therefore appreciate at first hand how important these issues are. It was a very formative period for me in terms of my career and my thinking.

The Good Friday agreement is one of the proudest achievements of the last Labour Government. I pay tribute to everybody who helped to bring that about, because, as the hon. Member and other Members will know, it was such an important moment in the history of the conflict. I absolutely stand four-square behind its principles, some of which I was doing my part to help implement when I was working in Northern Ireland, and they will always drive me on the issues that he raises with me.

We are reforming a broken system—the system that we inherited. I think most people accept that it needs reform, because it traps people in unemployment and inactivity, and we need to reform it for that reason. The principles will be that we will provide support where support is needed. Where people want to get into work, we will help them into work. The current system operates against people who want to get into work and make that transition; if they can work, they should work. Moving into work is what halves the risk of being in poverty, and that is why we have invested £1 billion in tailored employment support. Of course, we are also introducing a new premium for those with the most severe lifelong disabilities who will never be able to work.

The right hon. Member raises an important issue. I visited Port Talbot a number of times and heard at first hand from the workforce. She may or may not know that even in opposition, before the election, I was talking to the owners to try to persuade them to delay their decisions, because I knew an election was coming. That is how important I thought it was. I remind her that at the same time, the then Prime Minister refused to pick up a call to the First Minister even to discuss the issue. I took a different approach, because I realised just how important it was.

The right hon. Lady compares the situation with the decision we took last week, but I remind her that the blast furnaces were turned off in January last year and the coke ovens in March 2024, which was before the election. That was the very thing I was trying to ensure did not happen, for reasons that she and the workforce will understand, and I was talking to the workforce throughout. Since then we have been able to negotiate an improved deal with Tata that means better terms for the workers, and we did that within 10 weeks. We are working hard to maximise opportunities from the £1.25 billion investment in an electric arc furnace, we are supporting those facing job losses with £80 million of funding to learn new skills, and we are supporting the supply chains and protecting communities.

The right hon. Lady talks about protecting working people, but she voted against the biggest devolution settlement since devolution. That includes more money for public services, including the NHS, and her party voted against it.

My hon. Friend is a real champion for Airdrie and Shotts. Over 60,000 Scots have been stuck, waiting for tests or treatment for over a year, which is a 46% rise in one year. Almost 50,000 fewer operations have been carried out compared with before the pandemic. To compare what the SNP is doing with what we are doing here in England, we have driven down waiting lists within six months, with six months in a row of reductions, and we have over 3 million extra appointments. Scotland’s NHS urgently needs change, but the SNP has no strategy or plan—it has absolutely no ideas.

I have set out our approach to China a number of times. It is not materially different from the approach in the last years of the previous Government, I might add. In relation to Scunthorpe, the deal that we had to deal with during recess was the deal negotiated by the last Government. We have taken sensible decisions in the national interest and will continue to do so.

I am trying to arrange that.

I will leave that to you, Mr Speaker. I do not think it is for me to suggest that you donate your blood, although I am sure that you do and that we can support this jointly. We should take that up across the House under your leadership, Mr Speaker.

Let me join my hon. Friend in welcoming the new Brixton blood donor centre and the lifesaving support that it provides. Increasing donor diversity is a priority for the NHS, and we are working to increase Ro blood donations by engaging with communities who are more likely to have that blood type. I will ensure that she meets the relevant Health Minister to discuss what more we can do in this area.

We are doing everything available to us to protect car building in this country. The right hon. Gentleman will have noticed that two weeks ago, I made announcements about the zero emission vehicle mandate and what more we could do to support the industry. That was an immediate response to circumstances as they were, but I indicated at the time—and I do so again—that we will do whatever it takes to support our car industry.

I am deeply sorry to hear about Billy’s case; I am sure the whole House is. Our focus has to be on making sure that GPs spend more time caring for patients. That includes the investment of an additional £889 million in general practice in England, which has put over 1,500 GPs into surgeries since October. We did deliver a record settlement for Scotland’s public services to help fix our NHS and ensure that people like Billy get the care that they deserve.

The right hon. Gentleman is right that we need to go further and faster in kick-starting growth and attracting the investment we need to create jobs, and that our regulators must regulate for growth and not just for risk. We do want that continuity of leadership that he mentioned, and we are convening and getting people together to drive growth. We will take away the ideas that he put on the table.

I thank my hon. Friend for her question; I know this issue means a lot to her. We are clear on the principles for reform: protecting those with the most severe disabilities, who will never be able to work, as she refers to, and making sure that people with the most severe disabilities and health conditions will never again face the prospect of being constantly reassessed. We are making sure that extra financial support is based on the impact of a health condition or disability, not the capacity to work, and I can reassure her that we are carefully considering options for transitional protection.

Does the hon. Gentleman understand that the electorate in Scotland answered that question in July of last year? I remember that there used to be quite a few SNP Members sitting on the Opposition Benches; now it is a distant cry from up on the Back Benches.

I didn’t.