PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE
Prison Capacity - 10 September 2024 (Commons/Commons Chamber)

Debate Detail

Contributions from Richard Tice, are highlighted with a yellow border.
Lab
Dan Carden
Liverpool Walton
1. What steps her Department is taking to increase prison capacity.
Lab
Andrew Ranger
Wrexham
16. What steps her Department is taking to increase prison capacity.
Shabana Mahmood
The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice
Today is the day that those on the Opposition Benches always knew was coming. The legacy of the previous Government was a prison system on the brink of collapse, which left us with no choice. Today, around 1,700 offenders have had to be released a few weeks or months early by changing their automatic release point from 50% to 40% of their sentence. Had we not done so, we faced courts unable to hold trials, police unable to make arrests and a total breakdown of law and order. This is not the long-term solution—there is more that we must do—but it was the necessary first step that we had to take following the disgraceful dereliction of duty of the previous Government.
Dan Carden
I refer hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. One way to reduce pressure on numbers is to treat more offenders with drug and alcohol addictions outside the prison estate. That reduces prisoner numbers and reduces reoffending, which means fewer victims and fewer people returning to prison. Such a system is operating successfully in many parts of the country, but it requires the highest quality treatment. It also requires probation to work well, otherwise magistrates are limited in their choices. May I encourage the Secretary of State to get hold of Dame Carol Black’s internal review of treatment and recovery of drug-dependent people in the secure estate if she has not already done so? I have not seen it, obviously, but I am certain that it will contain many excellent recommendations.
Shabana Mahmood
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He is right: good quality work on rehabilitation to reduce reoffending and deal with drug and alcohol issues is critical to dealing with not just the rehabilitation of offenders, but the prison system. He will know that nearly 80% of offending is reoffending, which is far too high. The situation at the moment is that it is impossible to do good-quality, rehabilitative work in prisons that are more than 99% full, with prisoners locked up for 23 hours a day, so the first step is to address capacity. Once we have done so, we will be able to build on recommendations made by experts in this area to make sure that we do everything we can to reduce reoffending.
Andrew Ranger
I thank the Secretary of State for her answer. My constituency of Wrexham is home to one of the UK’s largest prisons. It is well known that if an offender has fixed and secure accommodation to go to, they are less likely to reoffend. What steps is she taking to ensure that those released today under SDS40 will have accommodation on release, including in Wrexham?
Shabana Mahmood
We are working closely with colleagues from the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to understand the impact on the housing sector, but, as is the case any time a prisoner is released, probation staff are working hard to prepare release plans, including permanent and temporary accommodation. If an offender is at risk of homelessness on release, they will be housed in community accommodation. We expect to provide housing for the majority of offenders using existing provision, but, should there not be enough, I have authorised probation directors to make use of alternative arrangements, including budget hotels, as a temporary measure for the cases that we will see in the next few weeks.
Con
Priti Patel
Witham
During the debate on early prisoner release in July, the impact assessment produced suggested that there would be 5,500 fewer prison places than planned for because of the need to meet the capital savings that were discussed at the time. When I raised that with the Secretary of State, she said that this matter would be under review. Can she now confirm that it is the Government’s intention to cut back prison places by 5,500 over the medium and long term?
Shabana Mahmood
The right hon. Lady will know that I have committed to publishing a 10-year capacity strategy. There are also live discussions as part of the Budget and spending review process. We have committed to delivering the shortfall of 14,000 places in our prison system, which the previous Government failed to do. That is a commitment that we have given. Those conversations are live conversations and I will report to the House in due course, but we will publish that 10-year capacity strategy before the end of the year.
Reform
Richard Tice
Boston and Skegness
Can the Secretary of State explain why, when some 10,000 foreign criminals are blocking up space in our jails, they are not being removed and deported, which would simultaneously save the British taxpayer billions of pounds every year and have the support of millions of British voters?
Shabana Mahmood
They are being deported, and they will continue to be deported. Nothing will change as far as the deportation of foreign national offenders is concerned, but the inheritance we received from the previous Government meant we had to take additional measures. The answer will not come from the deportation of foreign national offenders alone, but it is very much part of the picture.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
Con
Edward Argar
Melton and Syston
Under the early release scheme starting today, the detail of which was designed by the Secretary of State, how many people will be eligible to be released at the 40% point who have been sentenced, for example, for offences under section 20, grievous bodily harm, and section 47, actual bodily harm, of the Offences against the Person Act 1861, both of which carry a maximum sentence of five years, but for which more often a sentence will be awarded that is less than five years?
Shabana Mahmood
The shadow Lord Chancellor will know that we have made important exclusions in the design of the policy and that all those who have committed serious offences and have been sentenced to four years or more will be excluded from it. I will not be able to give details on the specific mix of offences per offender, but those offences that would otherwise be included, but that relate to serious violence or sexual offences, have been excluded from the policy.
Edward Argar
I am grateful to the Secretary of State, but I have the statutory instrument and the list of exclusions in the schedule here, and those offences are not specifically included in that list of exclusions. My fear is—and this would be deeply disappointing—that many domestic abusers who were convicted for those offences but received fewer than five years may be eligible for early release and be considered for it, because her scheme does not explicitly exclude those offences. Given that, the reality is that the Government’s claim that domestic abusers will not be eligible to benefit from the scheme will ring very hollow to victims of domestic abuse and the wider public, won’t it?
Shabana Mahmood
With respect to the shadow Lord Chancellor, what will ring hollow to members of the public is the Tory party’s new-found commitment to exclusions for domestic abuse, and the sheer hypocrisy of talking about exclusions to this policy when he was a Minister in the previous Government who brought in the end of custody supervised licence scheme, which had no exclusions relating to domestic abuse whatsoever—[Interruption.] He talks about the governor lock from a sedentary position, but he knows full well that that was an attempt to shift the blame away from ministerial decision making and to place it on governors—something I am not sure was much appreciated by those who run our prisons. We have taken every step and every mechanism available to us to exclude offences connected to domestic abuse and, crucially, to give the probation service time to prepare—something the previous Government never did.
Mr Speaker
I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
LD
  11:42:47
Mr Lee Dillon
Newbury
It is clear that our prisons are at breaking point. The Conservatives’ failure to tackle the courts backlog has directly contributed to prison overcrowding. Thanks to their neglect and mismanagement, the Government have been left with no choice but to take these measures. However, the Lord Chancellor said in her statement in July that these measures would be reviewed

“within 18 months of implementation—at the very latest, in March 2026.”—[Official Report, 25 July 2024; Vol. 752, c. 833.]

That is a long time away, particularly given the various stories we are hearing about certain individuals being released. Will the Secretary of State once again confirm that no dangerous criminals will be released early?
Shabana Mahmood
We have taken every measure available to us to exclude offences from this measure. Serious violence, sexual violence and offences connected to domestic abuse have all been excluded, as have terror offences and so on—the hon. Gentleman will know the list of exclusions. We will work with our probation service, which has done a heroic amount of work over the summer to deliver this policy, in the coming months. We will also work very closely with criminal justice system partners to make sure that the roll-out of the scheme is as safe as possible. We have taken every measure, we will continue to keep matters under review and I will keep the House updated in due course.
Mr Speaker
We need to speed up a little. We are only now getting to Question 2.

Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0.