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PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE
Covid-19: Departmental Effectiveness - 23 November 2023 (Commons/Commons Chamber)

Debate Detail

Contributions from Sir Oliver Dowden, are highlighted with a yellow border.
Lab
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi
Slough
1. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of his Department during the covid-19 pandemic.
  00:00:00
Oliver Dowden
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office
The Cabinet Office played a crucial role in co-ordinating the cross-Government response to the pandemic, and we continue to learn lessons from it. Last year, the Cabinet Office published the resilience framework, an ambitious, wide-reaching and long-term plan that is already working to strengthen our national resilience.
  09:35:05
Mr Dhesi
Those of us who lost loved ones during the pandemic have been left shocked and angered by the revelations being unearthed in the covid inquiry. They include quotes from the diary of the then Government chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, that the current Prime Minister thought

“just let people die and that’s OK”.

If that was not cruel enough, he was also overheard saying that Ministers should focus on

“handling the scientists and not the virus”.

Does the Secretary of State agree with me that this shows a shameful disregard for people’s lives and callous decision making at the heart of Government?
Oliver Dowden
I should say from the outset that I simply do not recognise that characterisation, but that is the whole point of the inquiry. This Government set up the inquiry, for the sake of the victims and the nation, to get to the bottom of what was an unprecedented crisis not just here, but around the world. We have been totally open and transparent with that inquiry. We have given it over 56,000 pieces of evidence. I would gently urge the hon. Gentleman to allow the inquiry to complete its investigations, to hear from all the witnesses and to produce its recommendations. As I have committed to that inquiry, the Government will respond fully to every single recommendation from Lady Justice Hallett.
Con
Dr Thérèse Coffey
Suffolk Coastal
During the pandemic, I could only see the true professionalism of civil servants in a variety of Departments, including the Cabinet Office, and I am very conscious of some of the pain being felt about the victims of that time. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that the civil service really stood up to the challenge of dealing with imperfect data and a rapidly changing situation? By the way, I include the civil servants of the Department for Work and Pensions in that regard. However, may I also encourage him to consider how we can strengthen analytical skills and capabilities right across the civil service? That is important, and I think it will be one of the key lessons that should come out of the inquiry.
Oliver Dowden
I thank my right hon. Friend for her question, and I pay tribute to her for her many years of service in the Cabinet. I agree with her characterisation of the civil service. Indeed, in my time working in various ministerial roles, I have seen true professionalism and dedication. However, I think she is absolutely right that we need to improve both our data analytics and the data flow into Government. One of the things we learned during the covid pandemic was, for example, that setting up the data centre in the Cabinet Office massively improved the amount of data we received. That enables us to deal with these very fast-moving situations and, indeed, we have used it in subsequent crises.
  00:00:00
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
Lab
  09:37:23
Nick Thomas-Symonds
Torfaen
The Deputy Prime Minister has just said that he does not recognise the alleged remark of the Prime Minister, who is supposed to have said

“just let people die and that’s OK”,

as set out by my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi). I am sure that the Deputy Prime Minister would agree that the way to deal with this is through transparency with the ongoing inquiry. I wrote to him last month to ask him about the Prime Minister handing over all his WhatsApp messages, particularly given that the Prime Minister’s account that he no longer has access to all of them seems implausible. With the Prime Minister appearing before the covid inquiry before the end of the year, can the Deputy Prime Minister confirm that all the Prime Minister’s WhatsApp messages for this period will be made available to the inquiry?
Oliver Dowden
I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that we will furnish the inquiry with every single piece of information it requires. Indeed, I would note that the Prime Minister and all those who are requested to provide information to the inquiry are legally obliged to do so. That is precisely what we have done. My Department alone has provided over 56,000 different pieces of evidence. I would gently say to him that the Labour party repeatedly called for this inquiry to be set up. We have set up this inquiry, and I think hon. Members should allow it to do its job, not jump to conclusions. When it produces its recommendations, I can assure the House that the Government will respond in full.

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