PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE
Business of the House - 19 March 2020 (Commons/Commons Chamber)
Debate Detail
Monday 23 March—Consideration of a business of the House motion, followed by all stages of the Coronavirus Bill.
Tuesday 24 March—Committee and remaining stages of the Windrush Compensation Scheme (Expenditure) Bill, followed by a motion relating to appointments to the Parliamentary Works Sponsor Body, followed by a general debate on the situation in Yemen—the subject for this debate was determined by the Backbench Business Committee—followed by, if necessary, consideration of Lords amendments.
Wednesday 25 March—If necessary, consideration of Lords amendments, followed by Opposition day— 7th allotted day. There will be a debate on a motion in the name of the Leader of the official Opposition, followed by, if necessary, consideration of Lords amendments.
Thursday 26 March—If necessary, consideration of Lords amendments, followed by a debate on a motion on errors in payments made to victims of the Equitable Life scandal, followed by a debate on a motion on human rights in Kashmir—the subjects for these debates were determined by the Backbench Business Committee—followed by, if necessary, consideration of Lords amendments.
Friday 27 March—Private Members’ Bills.
The provisional business for the week commencing 30 March will include:
Monday 30 March—Consideration of Lords amendments, if necessary, followed by Second Reading of the Non-Domestic Rating (Public Lavatories) Bill, followed by, if necessary, consideration of Lords amendments.
Tuesday 31 March—Matters to be raised before the forthcoming Adjournment. The subject for this debate was determined by the Backbench Business Committee.
I thank you, Mr Speaker, for the statement you made yesterday, when the Chancellor gave his statement to the press first rather than to Parliament. Parliament must be told first: we are not irrelevant. I note that the Chancellor apologised and gave you an assurance, but he did not actually say that he would not do it again. I ask the Leader of the House to ensure that, when press conferences are held, all the information is given. What is happening is that journalists are being briefed afterwards and important information is then highlighted under breaking news, rather than at the press conference.
I thank all the staff—we now have a skeleton staff—and those who have made arrangements so that they can service Parliament. Could I ask the Leader of the House if the parliamentary staff are key workers, so they too can be supported with childcare and other benefits? Will he confirm that no one will have to use their holiday entitlement when they are self-isolating or when they are sick? Hopefully they will get sick pay, but there is an issue that they may be using up their holiday entitlement.
We were in a good position to learn from other countries. After all, China built hospitals in two weeks. Vò in Italy has tested a lot—and we know that asymptomatic people, of which there may be many here, can still transmit it—and it is now virus free. I am pleased that the Leader of the House has taken on board the suggestion that I made last week, and that the Government and the BBC have looked to ensure that the over-75s do not have to pay for their television licence fees. I note that that is only until August, but all the other packages that have been mentioned will take place over 12 months.
The Education Secretary yesterday said he wanted to work with the BBC to ensure that our children can learn while they are at home, and also to provide exercise for seniors while we are all self-isolating. It is not right that the BBC should have to foot the bill, and it needs to be compensated for any loss of income. I want to ask the Leader of the House if he can, as much as possible, confirm that we will be back on 21 April. We know the Environment Bill is in Committee: can he make a statement on the timetable for Bills and the Brexit negotiations?
If we have to self-isolate, we will all be indulging in the creative industries— music, television and films. I know that the Leader of the House knows that most of those involved are self-employed now. Many of them have had concerts cancelled, and we need to have a proper package for them so that they do not lose out. There is some confusion, because insurers are cancelling events and citing force majeure. We know that the Department of Health has said that coronavirus is a notifiable disease, so could he please clarify that?
I have a constituent who had a stroke, and she has been asked for a sick note by her human resources department, but the GP is not giving her one. Could the Leader of the House clarify whether sick notes are needed?
I appreciate that the emergency legislation will be published later today—perhaps it has already been published—and it includes a sunset clause of two years. I would urge caution, because this is, after all, the Government who were found to have acted unlawfully over Prorogation. It is important that there is a shorter sunset clause and that the Leader of the House confirms that Parliament will return on 21 April.
May I make a helpful suggestion? There are lots of issues coming out of each Department. Could a statement be made, and published on gov.uk, on each Department and its package, and could there be dedicated helplines, so that we do not have to trouble, say, a Health Minister with questions about employment rights?
I know that the Government do not want to appear on “Today”, but the former Prime Minister Gordon Brown had some very important words to say on it this morning, and they should be heeded. Will the Government ensure that experts from other fields are heard? After all, when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister, he and Alistair Darling went through the economic emergency caused by the banking crisis, and also had to deal with flooding. What Gordon Brown said was very important: we are here to protect not our institutions, but our people. Please could we ensure that that happens?
It is excellent news that Nazanin has been freed. I thank the Leader of the House for all his efforts on that front, and those who made diplomatic efforts. Nazanin is out for two weeks, albeit with a tag that her family has had to pay for. Some 85,000 prisoners have been released in Iran, but neither Anoosheh nor Kylie, both dual nationals, are among them. Could I again ask the Leader of the House to raise their case? They need to be back home, where we can help them if they have coronavirus, which we know is widespread in Iran.
One of the good things to have come out of the current situation is the fabulous community groups that have been set up to help people. Post Office workers and members of the Communication Workers Union are going to every house, helping with deliveries. Firefighters in Manchester are going to ring elderly people often. Let us keep our spirits up. Tomorrow is the first day of spring!
I also record my thanks to parliamentary counsel for the phenomenal work that they have done in bringing forward the emergency legislation that will be presented later today. They have been working all weekend and late into the night on drafting the Bill. I note the point made about the sunset clause; it will have been noted. We want to maintain co-operation with all parties across the House, and I am sure that there will be discussions over the weekend on that point, but it is not for me to make commitments. I am genuinely grateful for the support.
On statements to this House, the Chancellor did indeed apologise for not making his statement here first. He was bringing forward financially sensitive information; those kinds of statement can be more difficult than others. I am glad to say that the Education Secretary made his statement here first, before holding a press conference. It is not an easy issue, because we need to inform the country at large, but maintain parliamentary accountability at the same time. Obviously, we will work closely with you, Mr Speaker, to ensure that Parliament is kept properly informed, and that we do not find things out purely from news reports, but it is important to get information out to the country at large as well.
With regard to our return on 21 April, it is very important that Parliament continues to sit. The position of Her Majesty’s Government is that Parliament will continue to sit. It is a point of significance. We need to be held to account, and to legislate. As for Bills in Committee, we will be able to ensure that those Committees continue as long as the House is sitting, but we may need discussions on precisely how the House operates. The shadow Leader of the House asks about voting arrangements. I thank the Opposition for not calling Divisions this week; that has been helpful in the circumstances. We need to work together closely to ensure that the mechanisms that we use are effective, to ensure that we hold the Government to account, and to legislate properly. We will have to look at this matter; I do not think it is right to make an immediate decision from the Dispatch Box. Let us see what the situation is when we come back on 21 April. There will have to be cross-party agreement; that is of fundamental importance to how the House works.
With regard to sick notes—I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for mentioning this to me in advance—as I understand it, they can now be obtained by going online with 111, so people will not need to get them from their doctors, though I reiterate the Government’s encouragement to businesses to be flexible about it. British businesses in many ways are leading the way. One hears all sorts of pieces of good news. For example, BP is offering free fuel to emergency service vehicles and things like that. Business is being community-spirited, and I encourage the business in the specific case she mentions, and in other similar cases, to behave in that way.
The right hon. Lady makes very good points about the centralisation of information. It is important that we have a reasonable balance rather than constantly bombarding Ministers to get information that is straightforwardly available already. The more information is collated, the better that will be. That was an extremely valid point, as was the point about the expertise of others. I also heard the interview with Gordon Brown, who had many interesting things to say, and I can assure the House that the Government are taking suggestions from a wide range of sources. As one can imagine, ideas are pouring in to the Government, and that is welcome.
On the over-75s, Lord Hall was on the radio this morning saying that the issue was under review. It is not therefore an August deadline and that is it—it is a decision that has been made until then. The BBC will consider it further, although I think we are going to have the opportunity of watching lots of repeats if we are staying at home. There are some wonderful programmes that were made not so many years ago, so that will not be too much of a burden, I would have thought.
I share the right hon. Lady’s pleasure about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. It is really very good news that she has been released. To update the House, the Foreign Secretary spoke to the Foreign Minister Mr Zarif on 16 March about all the dual national cases, so the Government are continuing to push on that. One piece of good news is welcome; let us hope there is more good news to come.
Is the Leader of the House considering such procedures? Alongside things such as changing our Standing Orders to reduce the attendance required to make legislation, there are also mechanisms whereby people can represent their constituents and press the case that they want to on behalf of the people who elected them without the necessity to actually attend the Parliament, and I think we need to do a lot more on that.
With regard to the emergency legislation, which we shall see shortly, I wanted to ask a specific question as to whether that will give the Government the scope to take action against some people who are engaged in quite disreputable behaviour at this point in time. While the public response to this crisis has brought out the best in people, there are some instances where it has brought out the worst as well. Many people will be shocked by the fact that there are private medical companies profiteering by charging exorbitant fees for testing at this point in time. I believe such people should be detained and their assets should be commandeered and put to the public good. I wonder whether the emergency legislation will give the Government the powers to act in that way.
With regard to the debate about a universal basic income or a minimum income guarantee, which many people feel is essential to avoid perhaps millions of people approaching the Department for Work and Pensions for benefit claims, the Prime Minister gave a guarantee yesterday that he would meet with others and bring forward proposals on that. When might we expect a statement to the House from the Prime Minister on that, and when will such a meeting take place?
Finally, it seems rather surreal and fanciful to be planning to meet not just next week in full, but the week after. Should we not now be taking steps to wind down our formal processes and go to the Easter recess at the end of next week? Would that not be the sensible course of action and indicate leadership to everyone else in the country?
The Government share the hon. Gentleman’s concern about people profiteering from the crisis and are aware that some people are behaving extremely well and others are using this as an opportunity. One has heard stories of people charging exorbitant prices for hand sanitiser, loo roll and so on, so the Government are aware of the issue and will act if necessary. As yet, it does not seem to be so widespread a problem as to require Government action, but we are not ignoring the point.
On universal basic income, the Government are willing to consider all ideas. Lots of ideas are coming in. The priority is to proceed with things that can be implemented rapidly and for which systems already exist. It may prove difficult to introduce entirely new systems, but I am sure that the Prime Minister, having said that he is open to meetings on this matter, will prove open to meetings on this matter.
As regards the week after next, the House voted for the recess dates, but it can obviously vote for new recess dates. We want to maintain flexibility, because I cannot make an absolute guarantee that all the emergency legislation that could possibly have been thought of is in the Bill coming before the House today. There may be other things that we need to legislate on, and there is also a demand for scrutiny, so we have to get the balance right. Nothing will be done without consulting the Opposition parties—I emphasise the plural.
[That this House honours and recognises the sacrifices that our veterans and their families make; notes the particular sacrifices that the partners of veterans make and the consequences for them of tragically losing a spouse or partner serving in the armed forces; notes the changes announced in 2014 which allowed war widows or widowers that lost their spouse or cohabiting partner in service in the armed forces before 6 April 2005, and had not remarried by 1 April 2015, to retain their war widow pension for life regardless of ongoing relationship status; notes however that this regrettably excluded war widows bereaved before 6 April 2005 that had already had to surrender their war widows pension upon remarrying or cohabiting; believes that this is unacceptable; notes that the only way this group of war widows could regain their pensions is by divorcing their current partners and remarrying them; agrees with the then Defence Secretary who said on 18 February 2019 that this was a burning injustice, Official Report, column 1187; and therefore supports the campaign of the War Widows Association to rectify this anomaly; and urges the Government to correct this injustice by providing equalisation and compensation for the small number of war widows unjustly affected.]
May we also have a debate on early-day motion 307—which, more positively, is about the enhanced co-operation between Blind Veterans UK and the Blinded Veterans Association of America, which are setting up a new combined eye trauma taskforce—and look for the Government’s support in that matter?
“examining alternative methods to see whether we can mitigate the impact”—[Official Report, 3 February 2020; Vol. 671, c. 3.]
of these changes. There is always a difficulty with cut-off dates.
As regards the co-operation between the US and the UK in relation to blindness and eye problems, what my right hon. Friend suggests sounds extremely worth looking into, and I will ensure that it is taken up with the Ministry of Defence.
Secondly, if the emergency legislation is passed—I hope it is, given the circumstances, albeit possibly with a few modifications—what other opportunities will there be for the House to question particular measures? This is a dynamic and fast-moving situation, and it may well be that within literally 48 or 72 hours one of the measures adopted results in perhaps 1 million or 2 million unemployed people with nowhere to go. What other opportunities will there be for the House to hold the Government to account quickly, should it prove necessary?
On future scrutiny, one reason why it is so important that we keep the operation of this House going—to which, as I have said before, the Government are committed—is to ensure that scrutiny takes place. The government of this country is the Executive and the legislature; it is not purely the Executive. We need to ensure that the legislature is operating efficiently, even if it has to operate differently, to ensure that we carry out our proper role.
May I invite Ministers to give us a statement on military assistance to civil authorities through the covid-19 support force? We have 20,000 armed forces personnel on standby for mobilisation to assist during this coronavirus outbreak. They will do a terrific job, but what will that job be? There is speculation that they might be involved in the shutdown of London, but we know that is incorrect. On top of that, they have a day job to do of watching our backs to keep our nation safe. With that in mind, and with the ever-increasing pressures that will be placed on those personnel as the coronavirus outbreak continues, will Ministers consider delaying the defence, foreign policy and security review until the new year?
On assistance from the military, I understand a written ministerial statement will be tabled today by the Ministry of Defence. I agree with my right hon. Friend that the service provided to us by our armed forces, in all circumstances, is truly remarkable and inspirational.
I am glad my right hon. Friend has raised some of the wilder stories that were circulating yesterday, and I encourage all hon. and right hon. Members to listen to official sources of information. Some of the things going around yesterday seem to have been said merely to make the flesh crawl. It is much better to listen to the press conferences of the chief medical officer and the chief scientific adviser for their calm responses to what is actually happening.
Most of us did not use hand sanitisers until a few weeks ago. I have seen evidence of wholesalers trebling prices to retailers, but it is not clear that those increases have been passed on by manufacturers. Wholesalers are clearly profiteering from these hand sanitisers, and retailers are left with the unenviable choice of passing on the increases or having a small margin. Can we have a Government statement on what will be done to prevent such unfair profiteering at a time of national emergency?
My hon. Friend is right to raise the immoral practice of profiteering and racketeering, and I call on wholesalers to exercise better judgment. The Government are keeping a close eye on such activity, as I said earlier, and will act if necessary. Some people always feel the right thing to do in difficult times is to get involved in profiteering. They should think twice about that and not do it.
On the point about the motion on Tuesday relating to appointments to the Parliamentary Works Sponsor Body, will we now finally see a group of professionals dealing with the northern estate and making sure that in the midst of this crisis, having had flood and pestilence, we do not see this place burned by fire as well?
As regards the Liaison Committee, I think it would be a very novel constitutional development to think that it could replace the whole House, and I am not sure that that would be something that I would welcome.
We are trying to get the balance right and understand the Government’s message. What is the Government’s message? It is that social distancing is advised for all of us and strongly advised for those over 70 or with certain serious medical conditions, but the Government have not said that businesses should not carry on, and our business carries on in this Chamber. That is in line with Government advice—there is no contradiction between social distancing and continuing with business, as the other half of the hon. Gentleman’s question points towards.
Right hon. and hon. Members want to hold the Government to account, and that means we need to be here to do that, but there again, a balance needs to be struck. My right hon. Friend the Health Secretary has come to update the House often, but he also has considerable ministerial responsibilities—particularly heavy ones at the moment—and I think the House ought to be reasonable in what it asks of him. If he were to be here every day for two or three hours, that would be two or three hours when he was not able to attend to his ministerial business. Getting that balance right is important. In terms of my role, I recognise that I must look at it from both directions—from the point of view not only of the House, with the House being informed so that it can hold to account, but of what it is reasonable to ask of Ministers.
In addition to that, we heard a litany of challenges facing small and large businesses in our constituencies this morning during the urgent question. Businesses in in Angus and Arbroath in my constituency are facing challenging situations in getting their brokers, their insurers and, crucially, their reinsurers to face up straightforwardly to what the obligations are under business continuity claims. May we have a statement setting out what the Government’s expectations of the insurance industry are? Is this being done in tandem with the Association of British Insurers?
There are indeed a litany of challenges faced by businesses, which is why the Economic Secretary to the Treasury was here for an urgent question earlier, and I understand the point that is being made about insurers. It is difficult for the Government to make a single statement on what will be a variety of contractual obligations, but insurers, thanks to the intervention of the Economic Secretary, have already behaved well in relation to businesses that have not been formally told to close but have de facto had to close, and there was a helpful announcement made by the Chancellor a couple of days ago. The insurance industry, very much criticised, is in some cases already behaving well.
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